Karen Dunbar on Hip Hop Workshops, the arts, and why she gave up watching the news
Back in November we held a Hip Hop and Rap online workshop with a very special guest in attendance – Scottish legend Karen Dunbar. We were thrilled to find out what a great experience she had on the course, and fascinated to discover about the new community Hip Hop workshops she’s been hosting online since the first lockdown. So we boldly asked her for an interview!
We chatted in depth about her Hip Hop workshops, which are currently mostly being held online via Zoom. Although it’s been an idea and a passion of hers for a while – the spread the power and positivity and Hip Hop and its empowering spoken word aspect – it was the conditions of lockdown which made it happen. Karen has been working with different community groups, from refugees to venerable young people, to a community theatre group, helping them to devise and create meaningful and personal rap stanzas. She even hopes to one day get their tracks played on the radio, and host a concert to showcase their work.
It was also a chance for us to catch up with Karen about how her lockdown(s) have been. 2020 was a trying year, not least of all for actors and comedians, with gigs and shows ripped from under them. But Karen is admirably optimistic, throwing herself into her new project and happy to face all the changes in our world with a headstrong, grin-and-bear-it attitude. She’s also stopped watching the news, which helps…
So why hip-hop then Karen? How did you get into that?
I love hip-hop! I’ve always loved it. It’s not as if I’ve been a huge hip-hop effiiardo for decades so I’m not gonna claim that, but I’ve always enjoyed rap music and been intrigued by it – the history, the culture. I was into a wee bit of Scottish rap music but the last couple of months it’s really took off for me. Just enjoying listening to it, discovering. And it’s because rap is essentially spoken word – it’s performance spoken word – and I’m an actor so that’s a big part of what I do!
[It] just kinda exploded! To almost an unmanageable point, which is just lovely in some ways but it’s a bit hectic. I’m working on a track now actually. But I am really enjoying it, really enjoying it.
Has music always been an interest?
There was a social club round the corner from where I grew up, and my big sister and my dad used to take me round, and I’d go up on stage and sing sometimes – I must have been about 4 year old. I mean this was in the mid 70s so you were allowed to take 4 year olds into a big pub and let them sing at the time! Full of smoke and everything. And you know I’ve got two sisters, and my mum and dad, and their influences – they’ve very different influences you know! One of them was prog rock – one of my sisters – the other was Motown, my mum and dad were much older so they were the classic references…
I always had a kind of musical ear. I don’t play any instruments – apart from the mouth organ and I only play ‘Oh Suzanne’ on the mouth organ! But when I was in primary, I was able to pick at tunes on a keyboard or on a xylophone – so if someone said ‘doe a deer’ I could play it. And I thought everybody could do that! A bit like seeing and hearing you know, that everybody could jus’ do that, but it wasnae until years later that I was like, oh that’s a thing not everybody has… So aye, music obsessed, obsessed!
There’s an old 70s song called ‘Music..’ by John… I can’t remember who sings it, there you go! John somebody! Anyway, he says, the first line has a big dramatic, big piano behind it, and he sings ‘music is my first love and it will be last‘ – and it always makes me laugh, because it’s true, it’s true for me.
What do the workshops involve?
Well, I’m saying they’re basic right now but it feels like there’s an awful lot in them! [laughs] I’ve been doing most of them on Zoom. They’re 2 hour sessions which are great, people are really enthusiastic, and they’re up for it, and they’re open minded, and they’re creative! The idea is to get a group of people, maybe 6 or 8, and give them a topic and ask them to write a short paragraph up about that topic and then to take each of their paragraphs and help them write it up into a rap stanza. Then, help them develop that and help them rap it and perform it – you know, [it’s] on Zoom, but we’re doing it!
I’ve been recording them and then taking the recordings. I’m doing some of them acapella, sometimes I give them a beat behind it, but obviously with Zoom it’s very limited. Then I’ll go and make the music up for the track on GarageBand, and edit their voices into the song. So I’ve just finished one about 15 minutes ago! I think I’m finished – I’m no sure! I might go back and faff about with it for another 5 hours! [laughs] But I’m hopefully finished with it. I’m really having a ball with it.
“There’s a strange mix of resignation and gratitude.
We’ve gotta do it like this, but at least we can.”
What has the response been like to the workshops?
Well, it’s so strange how it came about and, I’m not too arty farty or airy fairy [laughs] but it just seemed to happen and it just seemed to flow very easily, and usually that’s a good sign! I’ve done 5 workshops with 5 different groups over 3 week periods for each of them, I’ve got another 3 to do, and that’s intentional that I don’t have any more to do at the moment, because I could’nae handle any! [laughs]
When I started off, one of my friends – he’s a business advisor but a pal you know, I was talking to him about it, and he says, ‘so what are you charging for it?’ I’m nae charging anything for it! And he said you gotta charge something! I say – you know, typical artist – I don’t want tae make money, I want tae make music! And I meant that, I really meant it. That does’nae mean I don’t need to pay my rent and things… But I don’t want to attach money to this because it starts to sully things. SO, all that being said it gave me a really good place to come from, because the inference wasnae, ‘oh let’s see how much I can get financially out of this’. It was more, ‘lets see what we can do together.’ I think that’s been helpful in creating a useful atmosphere for it.
Who can get involved?
I had a group of refugees who live in Glasgow, that was my first group – fantastic! I was overwhelmed with enthusiasm and creativity, just brilliant. Then I was out at the Good Shepherd Centre out in Bishopton with some teens – and I was out there because they could still operate because it was a closed school environment. Again overwhelming, just wasnae expecting what I got from them at all. I thought it would be good but I didn’t realise it would be so moving!
I’ve just a couple of groups with the Citizens Theatre, they have a thing called the Community Collective, and that’s one of the songs I’m working on just now. That was so different as well! They’ve all been so different and I think that’s what’s making me so excited about it and quite purposeful, because every-single session is different, with a different mix of people and different backgrounds. And I think In fact, 4 of them – or 3 different groups – have asked me to come back and do it again, which is great because I’ve only just finished! So that’s heartening as well. And then another 3 groups coming up in the next month.
It’s just these groups that have come to me at the moment – and I haven’t even advertised it! I haven’t put it out anywhere, I’m just testing the ground right now – but the ground seems pretty fertile!
Are attendees new to hip-hop or do they have an interest already?
Yep, some of the students out at the Good Shepherd were fantastic MCs! I’m learning all the time… I didn’t know the difference between an MC and a rapper.. So they were educating me on that! But mostly, I mean the group I was working with yesterday I would say they were at the ages of 40 upwards, a couple of them in their 60s, which is brilliant! Each individual in that group, their attitudes to rap, what they liked and what they didnae like, and what they thought could be done – that’s so interesting as well.
Each group at the end has come out of it with a formed, structured rap song. I think that’s surprising to a few of the participants, I didnae see how this could work and yet here it is and it’s brilliant and it flows! And I’m LOVING that! I’m actually In love with it now! I’ve got all the chemicals of being in love, I’m off my face on dopamine! It’s all fleeing through me – adrenaline – I cannae wait to get back into it!
And the tracks they create – will they be available for people to listen to?
I’ve been talking to Steg G at Sunny G Radio, who’s one of your tutors, I said to him, what I’d like to do is, I’ve not had the chance to do it yet (you know, Zoom novice) but what I’d like to do is get the recordings together, and mix them as best I can. I’ve actually signed up to your sound engineering course, because I don’t really know what I’m doing with it. I just recently got back into Garageband, so I’m just learning that now. The quality of them is pretty dubious right now but what I’d like to do, and Steg has agreed, is make individual shows for each group and put them on Sunny G. Along with different music as well, but play that and play interviews with the group.
Essentially what I’d like to do is make an album of it and put it out. Then if the world ever opens back up do a concert at the Royal Concert Hall with each group – I would love that! But if its never anything more than what it is now, it’s fantastic. And I mean that, because if I keep it within that realm, I don’t project too much and I don’t try to force things like; ‘we need to do this better, because I want it to be recorded and who knows who might be listening…’ Pardon the expression – but f* all that! I just want the experience of being in the room – or being on Zoom – with participants. Anything else is a bonus.
Do you know much about the Scottish Hip Hop scene?
Nooo, this time 3 months ago all I knew was Stanley Odd and Loki! I didn’t even know Steg G did hip-hop. So there’s my ignorance level on it, but I’m getting more familiar with it now.
I’m also watching the Rap Game, which I had actually watched last year, without any thoughts on watching it because I was doing a workshop, and I don’t really watch a lot of reality show type competitions, but I was really interested in that, and I watched Hip Hop Evolution when it came out. So I’m watching Shogun on the Rap Game right now, and I’m very interested in his stuff. So aye, getting into it more – and I’m intrigued!
Some people have a negative perception of hip-hop – how it sometimes is sexist, homophonic or violent. It’s good that it’s being seen more as a positive tool for learning and expression. Because as you said, it’s spoken word and poetry!
Yeah, most things when they become so commercial turn… You know the two main sources of power are sex and money. And if you look at anything really, well most things, you’ll see that element when it gets to a certain degree. And as you said there, that’s now how it started off and that’s not what it needs to be. There’s other channels of hip hop as well – or there’s other ways to channel it.
“Each group has come out of it with a formed, structured rap song. I think that’s surprising to a few of the participants. I didnae see how this could work and yet here it is, and it’s brilliant and it flows!”
What about 2020, how has it gone for you? I saw you were set to play Lady Bracknell in The Importance of Being Ernest in Perth in March, did that go ahead?
We did yeah! We got so far into it. It was only a 3 week run, so we got 2 weeks out of the 3 weeks in the end. I’m really glad we got that but that was disappointing because I felt it was a huge role… One of the hardest in terms of muscularity– the vocal muscularity! The annunciation, the breath work I had to do, never mind any emotional stuff I had to do! You know so much of it was technique. And that sounds like I know what I’m doing – I’m not trained in anything, my training has kinda been on the job, so I made it up as I went along, and that… I felt I was just getting into the part and we lost the last week!
So yeah, that was disappointing. It was a lovely wee theatre in Perth, a great director, fantastic cast, the set, what they’d done, because it was a very low budget, and what they’d done with the set and the costumes, it was such a good job that we all pulled together, and we only had 3 weeks rehearsal! There were 5 cast members and the 4 were all playing other roles! So it was a huge undertaking. So aye, it was disappointing, it would be lovely if that was remounted, but god knows where and how and when now!
How was lockdown? Was the workshop something that came from lockdown or had you thought about it before?
Well, to answer the hip-hop question; a bit of both. I’d spoken a bit at the beginning of the year [2020] to a friend, it might have been even at the end of last year [2019]… Before I even knew what COVID-19 was! So it wisnae a thing that I wanted to do because of lockdown, but I had nae time! I had been wanting to do something like that for a long time and was just too busy… So yeah it did come from the lockdown in terms of how I could do it, because obviously I couldn’t have go into rooms with people, so the majority of it’s been done on Zoom, which I very hesitant to do, but if it was between that and nothing, then I was doing that, and actually that [is] working out.
I’m a Zoom novice but I seem to be getting better at it every 2 hour session! It’s just practice like anything. But I’m limited to what I can actually do, because if I was in the actual room with people I would be sitting working with them you know, you can get the energy of people as well, especially when it’s creative and it’s musical and it’s rhythmic and you’re picking that up off people… But we’re nae doing a bad job on it, and I think [the participants] are – I cannae speak for everybody– but I think there’s a strange mix of resignation and gratitude. We’ve gotta do it like this, but at least we can.
It’s strange to say this, I try to be very mindful of the suffering that’s happening… I’ve had my own stuff to deal with and that as well, it’s not as if it’s not touched me – ‘cos all my work was cancelled, and that’s a big thing! There’s nae furlough for me! There’s naebody paying me anything! But I hardly did anything. I couldn’t see anybody, but at the same time there was an awful lot less money spent. It was readdressing a balance personally for me in how I spent money, how I spent time – because that busyness! You know it’s funny, there’s kind of a perpetual motion that’s going on and then, coming into lockdown, was left panting! Almost like… [she mimics breathing fast]…
Left catching our breath!
Yeah. There’s some part of my brain mechanism that’s still running and looking to attach to the busyness, the level of energy it was used to. And that eventually ran out you know, with enough episodes of the Gilmore Girls [laughs] – that ran out! It was quite scary because I’m used to being very busy….. And then I went into the inertia period of, what the f*ck am I doing… What can I do? What do I want to do? What do I need to do? So all those questions on a small level.. and on a – micro and macro, because those sort of existential, ‘who am i, what is this’…
I hav’nae watched the news or read a newspaper for 20 years. Now in saying that, I was still on Twitter quite a lot – funny I came off Twitter a couple of years ago, and then I reinstalled [it]… I wasnae tweeting anything but I was reading you know so much, so I was infused completely with all sides of everything! Then the arse fell out of that.. I know I jus’ thought I cannae look at this anymore, so a couple of months ago jus’ deleted Twitter again. So I don’t have any news that I look at. My mates keep me posted on what I need to know. And that’s been really, really conducive to my creativity. I cannae stress that enough!
We’re aching for the arts industry right now! What advice would give those still interested in pursuing a career in the arts?
Well this might sound a bit strange – and I hope it does’nae come across as patronising in any way – but do not worry about it. Not because, in that kind of ‘everything’s gonna be alright’ way, but we must create, as the creatures we are ya know. I don’t mean us as artists, I mean the species – we must create. So whatever that creativity is inside each person, whether it’s about creating a good soup, creating a wee baby, creating music – we’re driven to do it.
There’s a surface level to me that’s like ‘oh my god, the theatre is shut, live events are shut, the bulk of my work is in that, what’s gonna happen’.. One of the ways that I’m able to calm down is to come back to what my needs are. And I’ve got a kind of mantra of, ok what are my needs? Food, water, air, shelter, love – sleep potentially! But even if I don’t get that I’ll probably still live for quite a bit. Food, water, air, shelter, love – that’s what I need. And I’ve never been without that! So I know that’s maybe no advice to an artist because I don’t really know how to give it other than; Don’t worry, we will find a way to create – we cannae not!
If we’re gonna live online then we will create online and that will take off… It’s already taken off but that will take off more – and I know that’s not the same and I know there’s a huge loss in that but.. There’s an old bumper sticker that says ‘change = loss + gain’ so there’s gotta be gain in it too.
It’s human nature isn’t it, to create?
And when I’m questioning and doubting everything myself creatively, that’s why for a few months of lockdown, my go-to place would’ve been – write a monologue, write something that you can do online – but I just was’nae there, there was a huge block! And I know a lot of creative people had that, but it was nurturing that belief, which is a core belief that as a species we’ve got to create, you know. This isn’t just about me being a suffering artist or something, that’s what we do as humans. Knowing that that was true, and thinking – ok leave it alone and it will come. And when it did it was a bit tsunami-like! It was like – ‘I’m going to do hip-hop! That’s it!!! HIP-HOP!’ So, it’ll come. And I think stressing about it can create a barrier to it. Sometimes it’s good to have a wee bit of stress to give us some umph, but there’s levels to it.
How are you feeling about the current lockdown?
I mean it’s a terrible thing that we’ve got to go into any level of it again. I feel so lucky, so lucky to be doing what I’m doing right now. I feel… it’s unfair to say this but to a certain degree I’m not really thinking about the lockdown too much. I’m waking up in the morning right now and thinking I’ve gotta find a baseline for that hip hop track! And I’ve gotta find a way to splice that.. And put a beat into this and I cannae mix yet, so I’m gonna Google that and watch a tutorial [laughs]! That’s what I’m thinking about just now.
Are you feeling more positive for 2021?
Next year? Nae idea! Don’t know, don’t care! Because it’s too far, it’s too far. Tomorrow’s a wee bit too far for me. What I manage is what’s happening right now. And that’s.. I was going to say a coping mechanism, but it’s not, it’s a dealing with life mechanism. An awful lot of the time –not in any kind of bhuddist-zen-medative kind of way– but I actually try to check in with my body; ‘Are ye in any pain?!’ Are ya hungry? Tired? Thirsty?’ Because this is reality what is happening here and now. And everything else, past or future, it’s all in my head! And that sort of brings me back into the room if you like. Which is good, that’s been a really useful tool over the years. Never mind tomorrow, never mind yesterday, what’s happening in the now.
And it’s not easy because we live in a society that’s so led towards we must try harder, better, higher, faster… bikini-body ready, blah blah… Oh man, we’re so immersed in it, just to come out of it for a while and think I’m gonna try this GarageBand loop, because my ears can hear it and that’s reality…
There’s me saying I don’t think about 2021! I am looking to expand [the workshops] next year, so if you know any groups that would be interested in that, then please put that out there. But we’ll see, we’ll see what happens today!
Meet 9 incredible Scottish artists from the AMS Women In Music course
Our latest Women In Music (Empowerment and Employability) short course took place online a couple of weeks ago, and was a roaring success. The free online event saw a huge number of passionate female artists and women in music, come together, network and share their knowledge.
Hosted by our own Karlyn King and Melisa Kelly, the event saw female-identifying artists currently based in Scotland come together to share knowledge and skills in a welcoming and inclusive environment. Some of our wonderful attendees have been kind enough to share with us some of their work and music. Take a look below for a short bio on each artist, and links to some of their music.
Our next WIM event will take place over 2 weekends from 21 November to 29 November – oh, and it’s completely free! Follow the link to book your place now.
Kate McCabe
Kate McCabe is a 23 year old singer songwriter from, and based in Scotland. She’s been writing songs since she was 10 and in 2014 released her debut E.P ‘Fault’ at 15 years old. Most recently in 2018 she released she second E.P ‘WOMAN’. Kate said that music has always been her passion and she hope that her work will “emotionally engage people with melodies and lyrics not only make you stop and listen, but make you stop and think”. Check out her music on her Bandcamp artist page and get updates on her music on her Facebook.
Jeri Foreman
Jeri is a big name in Australian folk music – now residing in Scotland! A fiddle player from Adelaide (South Australia), Jeri’s debut in the Australian folk scene was winning back-to-back Young Traditionalist’s Awards at the Victor Harbour Folk Festival, age 11 and 12. Sh’e won plenty of awards since then, including Most Outstanding New or Emerging Artist/Group in the Folk Federation of SA Folk Awards in 2007 and 2008, and in 2009, her performances with Adelaide band, Garida, won the inaugural Peter Daly Award for the finest performance of Celtic music at the National Folk Festival.
She’s also gone onto being awarded music scholarships 2010 to study with many of the world’s top fiddle players, and in 2014, she won the Best Composition Golden Fiddle Award for her tune, “No Bigger Than an Envelope”. She is a multifaceted fiddler, fascinated by finding similarities in fiddle traditions. Jeri holds a Bachelor of Music with Honours (majoring in violin performance) from the Elder Conservatorium. She has released two albums of compositions in the Celtic style, in 2013 and 2017. She continues to play with a variety of musicians in multiple genres. Check out her LP The Blue Album on Spotify now.
Amy Ross (Baby Taylah)
Scotland based Amy Ross (artist name Baby Taylah) is know for her fusion of dark electronica with distorted, breathy vocals, which flicker relentlessly between angelic and ominous tones.
“Combining dark electro pop with a classic Celtic sound, Baby Taylah’s music is fuelled by a sense of empowerment. Born Amy Louise Ross, the 27-year-old singer-songwriter had been active in the Glasgow music scene since the late aughts before she decided to take a three-year break from songwriting. More confident than ever, she returned late last year having signed to Swedish label Icons Creating Evil Art with a bold new single called ‘Reclaim’, a track whose power lies in its minimal yet effective production, presenting Taylah as a force to be reckoned with. There’s a lot to be excited about in Baby Taylah’s future, and we can’t wait to hear more….”
Alison McNeill
Alison is 1/3 of Reely Jiggered – “a Scottish folk rock band with a twist”, who’s recent album Tricky Terrain is cone to check out. Alison has performed as a soloist all over the UK, Holland, Spain, Italy, Germany, Austria, Japan, Pakistan, America and Mexico and has been broadcast on BBC Radio Scotland, BBC Radio 3, BBC Radio nan Gaidheal and Spanish, Pakistani and Mexican TV.
As a freelance portfolio musician, Alison enjoys a busy and varied career as a Classical lyric soprano performing as a soloist in top venues including Glasgow Royal Concert Hall, Minami Aizu Concert Hall (Japan) and the National Auditorium of Galicia (Spain). As gifted recitalist, Alison formed the McNeill Savaloni Duo with Classical guitarist Sasha Savaloni which has seen the pair broadcast on BBC Radio Scotland’s Classics Unwrapped and become the 2015-2017 Artists in Residence for Enterprise Music Scotland‘s Chamber Music Project.
Ellie Morrison
Ellie is an Artist Manager and Musician. After receiving a first class honours degree in music business at SAE Institute, I decided to set up my own artist management company called Ellie Morrison Artist Management. Since then, she has been working with singer/songwriter Megan Black for around a year, in which time they have released two singles and organised a series of independent events and gigs.
“Not every day is the same,” she said in an interview with SAE. “Most of the time I am updating her social media, depending on what event is coming up next, and then making sure everything is organised for whatever we are working on at the time. Right now we are working on an EP, so over the next few weeks I will be making sure the songs are finalised, uploading them to a distribution company, creating an EPK (Electronic Press Kit), which includes the tracks, music videos, promotional photographs and press release statement, which I will then send out to different press outlets.”
Get updates on her Facebook page.
Sonia Duignan
Based in Scotland, Sonia D is an Irish singer-songwriter whose fingerstyle picking and melodies take their influence from Folk and Indie Folk music. Sonia’s acoustic based music contains thought provoking lyrics and emotive vocals intertwined with hints of piano and strings. With her haunting tones and honest expression she sings about her life experiences and hopes that her music resonates as a form of escapism or therapy to any who listen.
Growing up in Galway, Sonia started writing songs at the age of 10 immersed in the influence of artists such as Nina Simone, Pete Yorn, Fiona Apple, Glen Hansard, Jeff Buckley, Heather Nova and Chantal Kreviazuk. Today’s influences number the likes of James Vincent McMorrow, Wallis Bird, Dodie, and Dermot Kennedy, whose music has inspired her to be brave in baring her soul through her art form. Sonia loves live streams and plans to gig both locally and abroad. Currently focused on releasing singles, an E.P. and an Album are also in the pipeline.
Jen Athan
Jen Athan is a songwriter, composer, producer and multi- instrumentalist from Aberdeen. She found her passion for music after learning to play the violin, piano, guitar and drums throughout her youth. Whilst studying music at North East Scotland College, she found herself becoming more involved in music production and sound design and decided to pursue a career in writing and producing music.
In 2018, Jen released her solo piano EP Vinter Allée with one of the pieces ‘For Sebastien’ featuring in the sold-out performance of Kid Astronaut – an early years theatre show which she also co-wrote. She has worked with Scottish Youth Theatre, Tron Theatre Young Company, Ipdip theatre, Glasgow Life and BBC The Social.
Listen & learn more on her website.
Emma Milligan
Emma is 22 year old singer songwriter based in Edinburgh. On her artist page, she says her influences are the likes of artists such as Fleetwood Mac, and Ed Sheeran. She plays guitar and ukulele. Find out more about Emma on her Artist Facebook Page.
Emmy Leishman
Otherwise known as Big Girl’s Blouse, Emmy Leishman is a Glasgow based artist. Listen to her radiant music on Soundcloud now.
Brighten your day with our November playlist
Take your mind off the impending lockdown, and give your ears a well deserved treat with our carefully curated November playlist.
It's been another superb month for releases in Scotland, and our Glasgow team have put together a compilation of tracks that does mighty justice to the incredible local scene at the moment.
A playlist diverse as always, check out notable releases from Taz And The Maniacs, Tommy McGuire, Paul Mullen Music, Rigid Soul, Chris Greig & The Merchants, Lucia & The Best Boys, Ceiti and Quiche.
Many Hats with Resonate's Susan Montgomery
For the next instalment of Many Hats we sit down with Susan Montgomery, Project Manager at Glasgow’s annual Resonate Music Conference, and Senior Music Publicist at Publishing Company 23 Precinct.
Susan has been working on producing Resonate for 4 years now which usually happens in Glasgow each year. This year, like everyone, Susan and her team are having to adapt to the strange new conditions we find ourselves in, so this year, Resonate 2020 will be taking place virtually in November. Susan talks us through her experience – from starting a biochemistry degree to following her passion for music by going back to college to study music, and subsequently kick-starting the impressive career she holds today! See below for wise words, hot tips and some impressive anecdotes…
What are your current roles? What do they involve?
Right now I work as the Senior Music Publisher at 23rd Precinct Music, which is first and foremost a publishing company, so we represent songwriters, composers and music creators, and we also have 2 in-house record labels – so I wear many hats in that role!
I also Project-Manage Resonate which is a music industry conference, which normally happens physically, but this year it’s happening digitally. It happens in November every year in Glasgow, and we host a series of panel discussions, one to one sessions, workshops, seminars – a whole bunch of things! We’ve really worked to grow that over the past 4/3 years to be a sort of calendar – staple – event in a lot of Scottish music-people’s lives I think now, and that’s really where we’re at!
Amazing! What key skills do you use in each role?
At 23rd Prescient as a Publisher I have to be great at communicating. I have to be really forthcoming with ideas, pitching to labels and management companies. So if I’ve got a writer that writes a song I have to find a home for that song, so I directly pitch to management companies, not just here in the UK, but all over the world.
I do a lot of pitching for Sync as well – Sync is when you put music to a moving image, so that could be a game or trailer, advert, whatever else. Basically I organise all the catalogs, all the new music that our writers are writing. I have to then process it on a platform – so being organised is a really important skill. Being able to self-motivate is really important and being able to prioritise your tasks. You know, if I get a briefing for a Sync and it’s urgent I have to drop everything I’m doing and respond to that.
And in terms of Resonate, I think being a good team leader – hopefully I am a good team leader I don’t know, I’ve not had any bad feedback so far! [laughs] – but being able to manage and delegate tasks is really hard, especially if you’re a control-freak, but it’s just about overcoming those challenges that you face with just growing up I guess!
What’s the most rewarding aspect of your job/s?
From a publishing perspective, that’s really where my passion lies. I really love songwriting and just think it’s such a magical thing. Seeing someone get a track picked up by a big label, or maybe I’m working with a vocalist who’s just produced an acapella and I get a producer to bring that track to life, I love that. And if you manage to sign it to a big label, or it doesn’t even have to be a ‘big’ label, but just the feeling of accomplishment, and knowing that you’ve helped that writer or vocalist [is great].
We’ve work on a long term basis, so when we sign people we sign them for at least 18 months, maybe 2 years, so it’s really rewarding seeing those writers progress and develop and grow in confidence. Being able to say, “I’m going to go into this session, and I’m going to smash this” or “I’m not going to feel overwhelmed in a studio with people with 20 years experience” – I think we can all suffer from that anxiety sometimes– so that’s definitely one of the most rewarding parts.
And on the conference side, the rewards are just seeing people learn and talk to each other. I think a lot can be said for people communicating and networking, there’s no better feeling! Making friends… Remember when we used to go out and meet friends! [laughs] I think on an employment level, it really is just seeing people develop and grow – that’s really rewarding.
What experience did you need for the role/s you’re currently in?
Well I started out studying Biochemistry – I dropped out of that because I realised I didn’t want to be a scientist and really I just went to college – that can seem like a bit of a step back sometimes, or society has a dim view if you change your mind or your career… But I went back to college, and my lecturer was actually signed to the company that I work for now, so basically it came to fruition that he suggested me for an opening at the company. So in that sense going into higher education did benefit me.
Was it a music course?
Yeah yeah, a HND in Music Business! I went from cutting up rats at uni to learning about something I had always been really, really passionate about [laughs] – but maybe skeptical, about a career there. And I think this series will probably point out that there’s so many avenues that you can open your eyes to – music publishing, record label management, being an artist, working in the live sector, working in sync, – there’s such a handful. There’s industry bodies, there’s so many opportunities out there, which I really opened my eyes to when I was at college.
And from there, I was just doing the crappy jobs like working the door and doing the cloakroom at gigs, and just really getting my face out there. I happened to meet the manager of a band [from that] and then I was a tour manager for a little bit – I don’t think I really qualified to be tour manager [at the time] but it it was definitely about learning on the job. it was really cool, I got to travel to all parts of the world, and it was a really cool experience.
What was the most challenging aspect of first starting out in the industry?
I think it was just overcoming that anxiety that I think you have when you’re surrounded by people who know a lot more than you – or that you think know a lot more than you. You can feel a bit sheepish sometimes, asking questions. And I think because I was a little older, I was maybe 20/21 when I was first getting into this, I was just thinking ‘it’s now or never’ (even though it wasn’t) but you’ve just got to have that confidence. And if you have a question, just ask. I think for a long time I was sort of like, oh man I can’t ask that person, they’ll think I’m dumb… But really you never experience anything like that, it was always that everyone was really up for helping.
I’ve actually ended up speaking at Academy of Music and Sound classes, and reflect that onto the students there too – just don’t be afraid to ask questions. Its challenging getting your foot in the door, but definitely it’s important to believe in yourself. And there are gaps in the market, so start a company that fits that gap! I would recommend people do that, just being innovative and inquisitive – innovative and inquisitive! There you go [laughs]…
Was your current job always something you wanted to do?
I found out about [music publishing] at college, and music publishing is basically just looking after songwriters and producers, and pitching tracks to labels… So not everyone that writes music is going to perform it, so those that are writing the tracks, I’m going to try and get those placed with labels or management companies or in advents. That really pricked my interest when I was at college, I did my own research on it… But up until that point I had no idea that job existed! It’s a sort of mythical area of the music industry that not a lot of people seem to delve into. But I thought it was really interesting!
In terms of the event side of things, I used to put on events and gigs myself a lot, so had a tiny bit of experience with that – nothing on the scale of a conference. But still, it goes back to having that ground knowledge of a lot of different areas. I think is really what the pertinent benefits are from going into music and studying music – you get a piece of every sector. Its a good time because you sort of find ‘your crowd’ as well – I hate that phrase actually [laughs] – but finding out what it is you want to do with your life. When people ask 14 and 16 year olds what they want to do with the rest of their life, they don’t know – and of course they don’t know! So I think going to college and finding that time where you can discover what you’re interested in… Whether that’s a sound engineer or a songwriter. That’s the time to find out.
What about your music education? How has that informed your skills and experience?
For sure! I went to Glasgow Kelvin College and one of my lecturers was in the band The Bluebells, which were a really big band in Scotland in the 80s. And he was really good at getting the best out of people in his class, getting people to come out of their shell and creating opportunities. Like, we went and saw Stereophonics at The Hyrdo in Glasgow and being there and physically witnessing what was happening… Those physical elements to the course where you weren’t just sitting and looking at a computer screen I found really valuable. I was able to talk to people and we were able to network.. And nobody likes networking! Anybody that says they like networking are lying! [laughs] But you just have to find your own way of dealing with it and making it comfortable for you. That was a good experience being at college, and sort of learning those tricks. And don’t always hard sell yourself – have an actual interest in the person you’re talking too.
I did that course for 2 years, and actually moved down to London to complete a degree at the University of West London, but that fell through and I moved back to Glasgow and just stumbled into this job! So I was really, really fortunate. But definitely having that bit of paper that says you have a qualification in music helps, it’s really valuable in terms of getting your foot in the door and it just lets people know that you have a steady and ground knowledge of music and the music industry, so it’s really beneficial.
Even networking through music education itself can be really helpful as well?
And I know through the Glasgow (AMS) branch, they have a lot of guest speakers come through as well. So myself, but they also bring people from all over the UK, and it’s just about going up to that person at the end and saying ‘thanks for your time’ or making yourself memorable in some way, or just letting that person know, if you’re a manager or artist or whatever, just going up and telling them. And if you need to email them 6 months later, they’ll remember you asked the person who thanked them for their time. Just little things like that, they can seem so menial, but they really are important.
What’s the most valuable piece of advice you’ve received throughout your career?
It’s quite hard to pick out one valuable bit of information… But I think just knowing that you’re doing what you’re passionate about. I think if you’re not passionate about it, maybe you should reconsider? I think I’ve always known that music is my passion and I feel like I’ve got a connection to music… I always sort of felt like I’d end up here. I don’t really believe in all that sort of stuff, but I think, just know that you’re following your passion. And know that it’s going to be hard working in the music industry. There’s quite a lot of people fighting for very few jobs – it can be that case in a lot of sectors – but you have to be committed and you have to be driven. I think that would be the takeaway quotes – driven and committed!
And finally, what advice would you give to current students starting out in the industry right now?
I think just spend as much time as you can learning… I think if I was to try and think of one positive thing that’s come out of the COVID thing – which obviously there isn’t much – but the opportunity for e-learning as improved, there’s lots of things going online. Following things like BPI which is a governmental body for UK music and they have lots of programmes available for free. And we have a conference obviously – shameless plug here! [laughs] – and we’ll have lots of events on throughout the day, so really take the opportunity to expand your knowledge!
And in terms of employability, after this whole thing ends, particularly the live sector is decimated right now, but we’re all working together as a community and there’s lots of great campaigns to get involved in like #LetTheMusicPlay and #WeMakeEvents – even societal things like Pride and Black Lives Matter – music has had a huge impact on all those movements (and vice versa), so it’s still a really good time to get involved in music. Maybe not in the way you would hope to right now, but there’s still lots of things happening in society and with movements that hopefully once this is all over, will set you in good stead for getting a job – setting yourself apart from others applying for a position for instance.
My best bit of advice would be to just be yourself, don’t try to be anyone else, and be committed to whatever it is you’re passionate about, if it’s events then be committed to that, if you’re passionate about being a [sound] engineer be committed to that! I know how hard it is to get your foot in the door, I would definitely just say get out there, don’t be afraid to email don’t be afraid to message on social media – whatever medium you see fit! And don’t be afraid!
Resonate Conference 2020 will be held virtually on 26 November. You can purchase tickets here.
Resonate is an annual music conference held in Glasgow’s east end. Now in its 4th year, we’ve built the event from humble beginnings and now is considered a staple in the Scottish music calendar [we think!].
This year we’re making the move online and hosting our event via Hopin. You can expect the same top quality panels, 1-2-1s, workshops, demonstrations and more all from the comfort of your home. Tickets are on sale now!
We’ve build our event upon 4 key pillars; collaboration, creativity, accessibility and development. These are key objectives that we try to apply to all the activities within the programme. We’ve worked with local venues and event spaces to open up our programme to accommodate technology workshops, one-one advice sessions, group activities, presentations and panel events. Although we won’t be able to utilise those physical spaces for the same purposes this year we’re still as keen as ever to have a diverse range of learning and networking activities for all our virtual attendees.
Follow Resonate for updates:
@resonatescotland | Facebook | Twitter
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Words & Interview: Isobel Trott
Photos: © Resonate 2019
Listen to new music on the AMS Scotland October playlist!
What a month for releases! You can listen to our October Spotify playlist featuring some of the very best ones, right now...
Summer is gone and autumn is officially here. See in the changing of seasons with our perfect little playlist. Curated by our amazing team at AMS Glasgow, the tracks are packed with new and fresh releases that prove that no-one can stop culture, not even during a pandemic!
Featuring loads of former students and teaching staff at the Academy including, Gordon Robertson - Music, Nicky Murray, Lizzie Reid, Georgia Cécile, Cloth, The Black Denims, Ruby Gaines, Zoe Graham, Melisa Kelly and the Smokin' Crows, Lucia & The Best Boys, Anchor Lane (a cheeky cover there) Rachelle Rhienne and finally KLEOPATRA – it's enough to make you want to stay home, snug and cosy, with some bangin' tunes.
Phew – I think that's just about enough for this cold October day! Dive in and listen now via the player below.
Listen to our Lockdown playlist here, and see more from AMS Scotland on their Facebook page.
More about AMS Glasgow
The districts across Glasgow have their own unique personalities and hidden gems, from their ever-evolving food and drink scene to the iconic architecture. It boasts more than 700 bars, pubs and nightclubs and 7 cinemas. The music capital of Scotland, Glasgow is a recognised UNESCO City of Music. Paired with its unrivaled cutting-edge art scene Glasgow, has an abundance of expression and creativity.
Online learning: Since March we’ve swapped the studio for home and come September we’re confident we’ll be in a great position to offer flexible, online learning to students should we need to. We’re also spreading out, finding new spaces for learning so classrooms can be bigger and class sizes smaller. We were quick to adapt to the changes back in the Spring, and received some hugely positive feedback from our students.
The AMS April playlist is here!
We almost forgot about this one...
Don't worry, we're back on track! Our AMS Glasgow monthly playlist series returns, and this time, we've teamed up with a BA (Hons) alumni for a specially curated April edition of our Spotify instalment.
Craig – the head honcho of rock and metal promo crew, Goddamned Promotions – helped us curate our latest beefy playlist. It's a hard hitter, featuring the likes of The Massacre Cave, Black Peaks, Godeater, VEXED, and Dead By Monday.
Need some shredz? Shreds here. ????
Tuck in
Trivium shoutout AMS Glasgow for their Covid response
Shoutout from Trivium’s Matthew Heafy
At AMS Glasgow we took it as red that we would continue to deliver our music qualifications despite the current shutdown. As a provider in the sector we worked to get our entire delivery moved over to an online model as quickly as we could, to ensure that education could continue for our students, and work for our staff as smoothly as possible. We thankfully managed a swift transition within 4 days, and although things are still a little strange, we’re happy to be able to continue teaching and playing, in a more digital form.
Still, it came as a bit of a surprise to discover that guitarist, vocalist and founding member of metal band Trivium, Matt Heafy thought our efforts were worthy of a video shoutout! On further research we found out that some of our students had actually arranged the shoutout, and that made it all the sweeter.
“Thank you for keeping education going” the frontman said in the video. We’re absolutely chuffed by the praise, and at our students for reaching out to the band. Matty also chats about some of the great spots to eat and drink around Glasgow – making us miss the outside, but thankful we’ve got such a great city to look forward to enjoying again soon.
Thanks so much to our students for their efforts to keep things going whilst we’re all at home, and thanks to Matt Heafy for the kind words.
You can check out the full video in the player below.
The Big Gig at St Lukes Glasgow
2019 Official Film
In November 2019 we completed our year of 25th birthday celebrations with an epic showcase at St Lukes in Glasgow. Wandern Media were on hand to capture the entire event, as well as providing some sick snaps, they caught the entire gig on film in this epic gig video. Check it out below.
Nina Nesbitt speaks to AMS Glasgow students
at YouTube x SMIA event
Last week we were back at Saint Luke’s & The Winged Ox where 70 of our Glasgow students attended an educational music event hosted by YouTube and Scottish Music Industry Association (SMIA).
Singer-songwriter Nina Nesbitt, who originally hails from Livingston, spoke to over 120 people from Glasgow’s thriving music scene, including 70 students from our very own Glasgow centre about how YouTube helped to bolster her career in music when she was just starting out.
Speaking to The Evening Times Nina said, “I started my YouTube channel when I was 15, and I think it made a massive difference to starting off my career.”
“Myself and musicians like Gabrielle Aplin, Lewis Watson and Orla Gartland are just a few that I used to listen to who all started in the same way, and I think they will agree that using YouTube in the way that we did was life-changing.”
She also commented on how social media helped her make connections in the industry; “I was from a small village in Scotland and there wasn’t much in the way of a music scene, or even any connection to the industry. Using social media and YouTube was my only form of connection to that world. The site has obviously changed since then, but I want to help teach other aspiring musicians the ways they can use it to help them nowadays. Visuals are so important.”
Commenting on Instagram, Nina said, “Hopefully my story can remind you even if you aren’t from a musical family, rich background or have the connections around you there is still a chance to get where you want to be.”
David Mogendorff, YouTube Music’s Head of Artist Relations for Europe, the Middle East and Africa hosted the event. David, who hails from Aberdeen said, “Having grown up in Aberdeen and always been a huge fan of the brilliant music scene in Glasgow, it was fantastic to come back to the city today with YouTube.”
Throughout the evening there were performances from Nina Nesbitt and Free Love, and YouTube Music’s Head of Artist Relations for Europe spoke at the event.
Want to know more? Why not check out our blog on the importance of social media for aspiring young creatives.
Parts of this article were originally published on The Evening Times.
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AMS Glasgow BTEC Final Project Show's Raise £908 For Charity!
AMS Glasgow Student’s Raise Money For Charity
AMS Glasgow BTEC’s raised £908 in total for charity with their Final Major Project shows last month! The Nordoff Robbins Event held on the 18th and 26th of May. £241 went to Nordoff Robbins and £667 went to Cystic Fibrosis.